UltraFresh Vent System With OdorBlock™
The first and only UltraFresh Vent System with OdorBlock™ eliminates excess moisture to help prevent odors ensuring your washer stays fresh and clean
Watch Video
Microban® antimicrobial technology
Built into components including the gasket, dispenser and draining system delivering protection that lives on load after load
SmartDispense™ Technology
Save time and make laundry effortless with an intelligent dispenser that holds up to 32 loads of detergent and automatically dispenses the right amount each time
Watch Video
1 Step Wash + Dry
Wash and dry a small load in your washer, eliminating the need to transfer clothes to the dryer
Watch Video
Sanitize + Allergen
Industry-first cycle sanitizes fabrics to kill 99% of common bacteria and allergens such as dust mites
Built-in WiFi
Start, stop and monitor your laundry from anywhere while receiving real-time notifications and updates
Dynamic Balancing Technology (dBT™)
Our patented, time saving technology senses and rebalances uneven loads during the spin cycle, providing a quiet wash
Watch Video
Reversible Door
Easily reverse your washer and dryer door for superior installation flexibility
PowerSteam
Safely penetrates deep into fabric fibers, loosening stains to deliver enhanced cleaning performance
UltraFresh Vent System With OdorBlock™
The first and only UltraFresh Vent System with OdorBlock™ eliminates excess moisture to help prevent odors ensuring your washer stays fresh and clean
Microban® antimicrobial technology
Built into components including the gasket, dispenser and draining system delivering protection that lives on load after load
SmartDispense™ Technology
Save time and make laundry effortless with an intelligent dispenser that holds up to 32 loads of detergent and automatically dispenses the right amount each time
1 Step Wash + Dry
Wash and dry a small load in your washer, eliminating the need to transfer clothes to the dryer
Sanitize + Allergen
Industry-first cycle sanitizes fabrics to kill 99% of common bacteria and allergens such as dust mites
Built-in WiFi
Start, stop and monitor your laundry from anywhere while receiving real-time notifications and updates
Dynamic Balancing Technology (dBT™)
Our patented, time saving technology senses and rebalances uneven loads during the spin cycle, providing a quiet wash
Reversible Door
Easily reverse your washer and dryer door for superior installation flexibility
PowerSteam
Safely penetrates deep into fabric fibers, loosening stains to deliver enhanced cleaning performance
- UltraFresh Vent System With OdorBlock™
- Microban® antimicrobial technology
- SmartDispense™ Technology
- 1 Step Wash + Dry
- Sanitize + Allergen
- Built-in WiFi
- Dynamic Balancing Technology (dBT™)
- Reversible Door
- PowerSteam
|
| Total Capacity (cubic feet) |
5.0 |
| Wash Basket Type |
Stainless Steel - Tilted |
|
| App Filter - Overnight Dry |
No |
| App Filter - Pedestal |
Pedestal Option Available |
| App Filter - Steam |
Yes |
| App Filter - Capacity |
Washer Large (4.1-4.9 cu. ft.) |
| App Filter - Product Type |
Washers Front Load
Washers Stackable |
| App Filter - Single Item Cycle |
No |
|
| Front Serviceable |
Yes |
| Handle |
Pocket Handle |
| Installation |
Undercounter, Stacked, Side-by-Side, Built-In, Pedestal |
| Door Style |
Chrome Outer Ring with Chrome Vent
Reversible Door
See-Thru Glass with Tinted Door Protect |
| Color Appearance |
Sapphire Blue |
| Trim/Accents |
Chrome/Dark Knob |
|
| Circuit Breaker or Time Delay Fuse |
15 or 20 Amp |
| Volts/Hertz |
120V; 60Hz |
| Motor Speeds |
Variable |
|
| Warranty Notes |
See written warranty for full details |
| Parts Warranty |
Limited 1-year entire appliance |
| Labor Warranty |
Limited 1-year entire appliance
Limited 10-year basket
Limited 10-year motor |
|
| Quiet Package |
Quiet-By-Design with dBT™ Quiet Control |
|
| Optional Stacking Kit |
GFA28KITN |
| Optional Pedestal Accessory |
GFP1528PNRS (Sold Separately) |
| Fill Hose |
WH41X10207 (sold separately) |
| Optional Riser |
GFR0728PNRS (Sold Separately) |
|
| Net Weight |
246.0 |
| Overall Depth |
34.0 |
| Overall Width |
28.0 |
| Overall Height |
39.75 |
| Approximate Shipping Weight |
264.0 |
| Depth with Door Open 90° |
56.5 |
|
| Style |
Front-Loading |
| OdorBlock Capabilities |
UltraFresh Vent System™ with OdorBlock™ |
| Whites Cycle |
Yes |
| Water Temp System |
PerfecTemp Deluxe |
| Wash/Rinse Temperatures |
5 |
| Washer Options/Settings |
1 Step Wash + Dry
Delay Start
Delay Wash
Extra Rinse
Power Steam
PreWash
Smart Dispense
Time Saver
UltraFresh Vent |
| Optional Soil Levels |
Extra Heavy
Extra Light
Heavy
Light
Normal |
| WiFi Connect |
Built-In |
| Connected Capabilities |
Amazon Alexa
IFTTT
Sonos
The Google Assistant |
| Additional Washer Features |
Adjustable Leveling Legs
Front Serviceable
Internal heater
LED Basket Light
Power Cord Attached
Reversible Door |
| Leveling System |
Adjustable Leveling Legs |
| Vibration Control |
dBT™ Quiet Control patented technology |
| Control Type |
Capacitive Touch
Power On/Off
Rotary-Electronic w/LEDs
Start/Pause |
| Pedestal |
Optional |
| Spin Speeds |
5 |
| Number of Cycles |
12 |
| Receptacle Type |
3-Prong Grounding |
| Maximum Spin Speed |
1300 RPM |
| Steam |
Yes |
| Product Type |
Front Load
Stackable |
| Water Levels |
Automatic Temperature Control
Load-Sensing Adaptive Fill |
| SmartDispense™ Technology |
Yes |
| Washer Cycles |
Active Wear
Bulky/Bedding
Cold Wash
Delicates
Normal
Power Clean
Quick Wash
Rinse + Spin
Sanitize + Allergen
Self Clean
Towels
Whites |
| Specialty Cycles |
Active Wear
Bulky/Bedding
Cold Wash
Drain & Spin
One Step Wash and Dry
Power Clean
Pre-Wash
Sanitize + Allergen
Self Clean |
| Washer Control Features |
Add Garment/Pause
Adjustable End-of-Cycle Signal
Control Lock
Delay Wash - Up to 24 hours
Digital Cycle Countdown
LED Display
LED Indicators
Remote Start |
| Adaptive Capabilities |
Adaptive Spin
Auto-Load Sensing
Automatic Temperature Control
dBT™ Quiet Control |
| Dispenser |
Bleach Timed Flow Through
Detergent (Liquid/Powder) Timed Flow Through
Fabric Softener Timed Flow Through
PreWash
Protected with Microban®
Smart Dispense - Bulk Detergent |
-
-
Type:
Washer
-
Style:
Front Loading
-
Fuel:
Electric
-
-
Width:
28"
-
Height:
39.75"
-
Depth:
34"
-
-
Energy Star Rated:
Yes
-
Laundry Capacity:
5.0 cu. ft.
-
Steam Cycle:
Yes
-
WiFi Connected:
Yes
Offer Expires: 4/1/2022 to 7/31/2022 |
Must be postmarked by: 1/31/2023
Enjoy exclusive rebate savings with purchase of qualifying GE appliances. Rebate form must be postmarked by 1/31/2023.
Professional in-home appliance delivery is available in our local market. Service includes removal of the old disconnected appliance(s) (like models on a one for one basis), uncrating of new appliance(s) if applicable, and bringing inside and setting in place into room of choice.
Professional installation services are available in most areas of our local market. Installations are available only for items we sell. Items we can install include dishwashers, gas and electric cooking ranges, range hoods, wall ovens, cooktops, microwaves, washing machines, gas and electric clothes dryers, and more.
Please call 877-695-2757 or email us for full details and pricing.
You will be offered an extended warranty after adding this item to your shopping cart.
Our extended warranties offer bumper-to-bumper coverage for mechancal failures. All costs for parts, labor, and service calls are covered with no out-of-pocket expense or deductible. Extended warranties cost just pennies a day - a small cost for the peace of mind they provide. We recommend you purchase an extended warranty on every item you purchase. Call us at 877-695-2757 if you have specific questions on extended warranties.
Note: Extended warranties must be purchased prior to delivery and installation of major appliances.
4.6
out of 5
91% of reviewers recommend this product.
Great feature - ❤️ the auto fresh to vent the
CristieJ
6/23/2022
I love the feature that runs to dry the inside of the washing machine once you finished your load. Several additional features I have not used yet.
Originally posted on www.ge.com
Yes, I recommend this product
Appearance
Features
Performance
Quality
Value
In love and happy I made the purchase
briana9090
6/22/2022
I held off on buying a new washer and was hesitant to buy another front loader but the venting feature and microband is amazing. Love the color and am very happy with my purchase of both the washer and dryer.
Originally posted on www.ge.com
Yes, I recommend this product
Appearance
Features
Performance
Quality
Value
This Has Been Everything I Expected and More!
Presidio Curt
6/21/2022
This is the Tim the Tool Man Taylor 'Mack Daddy' of washing machines. We have been pleased with the performance. Thank you!
Originally posted on www.ge.com
Yes, I recommend this product
Appearance
Features
Performance
Quality
Value
Door lock
Jake 777
6/20/2022
The door lock code 27 comes up. I have an appointment on the 27 between 8-12 am. I was unable to get anyone on the phone that was human. My thoughts are not very good of GE.
Originally posted on www.ge.com
No, I do not recommend this product
Appearance
Features
Performance
Quality
Value
Love it too
Keeprmovn
6/19/2022
Great looking washer and dryer set. We couldn't be happier with our decision to purchase these over the other options out there. The washer is quiet, sturdy and has all the options you need. The clothes hardly need drying after the spin cycle!
Originally posted on www.ge.com
Yes, I recommend this product
Appearance
Features
Performance
Quality
Value
Really good washing machine - tons of features
RobCl
6/19/2022
Still exploring all the options. Love that it connects to my phone so I know when it completes. Good quality.
Originally posted on www.ge.com
Yes, I recommend this product
Appearance
Features
Performance
Quality
Value
amazing washer
soulman994
6/18/2022
this is our first front loader. works great, connects to the dryer wirelessly, no issues
Originally posted on www.ge.com
Yes, I recommend this product
Appearance
Features
Performance
Quality
Value
Great features!
DawnaB
6/18/2022
Love everything about this machine, especially the steam clean and Air-Vent system.
Originally posted on www.ge.com
Yes, I recommend this product
Appearance
Features
Performance
Quality
Value
GE washer at Bray and Scarff
levetownc
6/18/2022
Good size, clothes are clean and barely wet when done.
Originally posted on www.ge.com
Yes, I recommend this product
Appearance
Features
Performance
Quality
Value
Great washer
Vickie963
6/16/2022
The washer washes very well with little water. It is quiet and spins the clothes almost dry cutting drying time. Love my machine!
Originally posted on www.ge.com
Yes, I recommend this product
Appearance
Features
Performance
Quality
Value
GE Washing Machine and Dryer
Daisy Young
6/16/2022
GE is know for their product quality. Almost if not all of my home appliances are GE.
Originally posted on www.ge.com
Yes, I recommend this product
Appearance
Features
Performance
Quality
Value
GREAT FEATURES
Jen81980
6/15/2022
I love my GE washing machine. I can wash 30 or more loads before I need to replenish the laundry detergent. I can control my GE washing machine with my phone through wifi.
Originally posted on www.ge.com
Yes, I recommend this product
Appearance
Features
Performance
Quality
Value
The Best Washer and Dryer!
Marie0119
6/14/2022
These machines are so smart. I initially felt like the auto detergent dispense feature was unnecessary and not a big deal but after using it I love it! It's awesome to just fill it and then not have to refill it with a cap of detergent every time I do a load. And it just knows how much to dispense based on the weight of the clothes. It's such a time saver. I love the app feature and the ability to add an extended tumble right from my phone.
Originally posted on www.ge.com
Yes, I recommend this product
Appearance
Features
Performance
Quality
Value
Works like a washer
Ty133
6/13/2022
For the past 2 weeks, it has worked great. Not too loud. Spins the clothes well. I love the smart dispenser for the laundry soap. No more mess annoying cup to clean out after pouring out the liquid.
Originally posted on www.ge.com
Yes, I recommend this product
Appearance
Features
Performance
Quality
Value
Great front loading washer
Satish60
6/13/2022
Great washer dryer has everything I needed in a washer. App could be better.
Originally posted on www.ge.com
Yes, I recommend this product
Appearance
Features
Performance
Quality
Value
Love my washer and dryer so far!
DGSW
6/12/2022
First, love the blue color. The room for clothes is amazing. We bought is as a stackable set, but it was 1/2 inch too tall (so measure before you buy). I now will be buying the drawers for both the washer and dryer which will provide room for my laundry soaps and such. The settings work well, but I have not tried the smart defense as of yet.
Originally posted on www.ge.com
Yes, I recommend this product
Appearance
Features
Performance
Quality
Value
Dream Set - But damaged exterior
CLN315
6/11/2022
This was my dream set. I was so happy to get them home but so disappointed to find the washer is badly dented on both sides of the bottom rear. I don't know if this can be fixed, but it does not hinder the usage of the machine, hence only 4 stars.
Originally posted on www.ge.com
Yes, I recommend this product
Appearance
Features
Performance
Quality
Value
Cleanest Clothes and Super Quiet
RocketR
6/11/2022
This washer has great features, cleans our clothes the best I've ever seen, and is so quiet it's like it's not even on.
Originally posted on www.ge.com
Yes, I recommend this product
Appearance
Features
Performance
Quality
Value
Great features.
Mary7479
6/11/2022
I love it cause my clothes actually come out smelling good!
Originally posted on www.ge.com
Yes, I recommend this product
Appearance
Features
Performance
Quality
Value
Excellent washer
Best appliance out there
6/10/2022
Love it! Best thing out there, fits all our family of 6 cloths and bedding.
Originally posted on www.ge.com
Yes, I recommend this product
Appearance
Features
Performance
Quality
Value
Perfect size and love the color
Rick Dees
6/10/2022
This is our 5th GE profile appliances since 2001, always reliable and perfect design.
Originally posted on www.ge.com
Yes, I recommend this product
Appearance
Features
Performance
Quality
Value
Best Washer
SAED22
6/10/2022
We are very pleased with features of the washer. This soap dispenser is very nice and really like how quickly the cycles run. The large capacity drums were exactly what we were looking for. The washer performance surpasses our previous front loader.
Originally posted on www.ge.com
Yes, I recommend this product
Appearance
Features
Performance
Quality
Value
GE Washer
DonnaSmith71
6/10/2022
I love my new washer! It holds a lot of clothes and washes them really well. It spins so well the clothes are almost dry when I take them out of the washer. It looks great as well.
Originally posted on www.ge.com
Yes, I recommend this product
Appearance
Features
Performance
Quality
Value
So Many Features!
Tensen
6/10/2022
I bought this washer because it has a vent on the front that sucks in air through the door and dries the washer and hoses after I'm through with my laundry. I also loved that I can pour in a bunch of detergent and it will sense how much it needs for one load. I've had it a month and haven't had to refill it yet! There are so many great features. I gave 4 stars because I can't figure out how to achieve really soft laundry. I have tried different softeners and still am not 100% pleased. I would love to have some pointers!
Originally posted on www.ge.com
Yes, I recommend this product
Appearance
Features
Performance
Quality
Value
Ease of use.
Tuna26
6/9/2022
Washes wide range of items with ease. Very easy to use, love the no touch detergent feature. Will buy GE again.
Originally posted on www.ge.com
Yes, I recommend this product
Appearance
Features
Performance
Quality
Value
bigger capacity
KathyZ54GE
6/8/2022
This has a bigger capacity than our previous 20 year old front-loader. We love the convenience of the SmartDispense. So glad that the automatic venting process and special dedicated clean cycle eliminate front-loader funky smell.
Originally posted on www.ge.com
Yes, I recommend this product
Appearance
Features
Performance
Quality
Value
Smooth quiet runs like a sewing machine
Daveo72
6/8/2022
Runs smoothly very quiet well balances loads has Awesome features even wifi , very advanced as GE has been a leader for years
Originally posted on www.ge.com
Yes, I recommend this product
Appearance
Features
Performance
Quality
Value
Great features
Jfoye32
6/7/2022
Love this set. Comes with features that make washing & drying easier. Ex: Add additional time from app and being notified when the load is completed.
Originally posted on www.ge.com
Yes, I recommend this product
Appearance
Features
Performance
Quality
Value
Amazing Washer- Best out there
Kdiz
6/7/2022
I love this washer. It has a large capacity which our family needs. There are 5 of us in the family. I can easily wash beddings, towels, and comforters here. It is also very intuitive. I was able to connect the wifi on my iPhone app. It also has an UltraFresh Vent system which prevents it from smelling like mold.
Originally posted on www.ge.com
Yes, I recommend this product
Appearance
Features
Performance
Quality
Value
Great features Love this washer.
Slidellmom
6/7/2022
First time trying GE and I must say I love how good the clothes come clean and smell. I love the wash features the auto dispense is great. After owning one Samsung front loader and then a Samsung top loader with no agitator this is the best one I have had in a very long time. Hope to get the matching dryer soon.
Originally posted on www.ge.com
Yes, I recommend this product
Appearance
Features
Performance
Quality
Value
Love it!
BClean
6/7/2022
I didn't anticipate special features on a washer & dryer making my life easier and freeing up my time. These appliances deliver, while doing a great job at caring for my laundry. I highly recommend!
Originally posted on www.ge.com
Yes, I recommend this product
Appearance
Features
Performance
Quality
Value
Well worth the Money!
Miss Rio
6/7/2022
Extremely pleased with options for washing including sanitizing. Great receptacles for adding liquids to wash versus filling each time, smart idea. Noticed our clothes are much cleaner now. Bought this large capacity front load for king sized quilts and sheets. Love the pause feature and digital read outs. Someone was really thinking when they designed this machine, job well done! Highly recommend purchasing.
Originally posted on www.ge.com
Yes, I recommend this product
Appearance
Features
Performance
Quality
Value
A couple super features!
Karnac
6/7/2022
My 2 favorite features are the Auto Dispense of detergent, so you don't have to put detergent in every time you do a load of wash, and the Auto Load Size, so the washer adjusts to the amount of laundry inside, and uses the proper amount of water each time.
Originally posted on www.ge.com
Yes, I recommend this product
Appearance
Features
Performance
Quality
Value
Venting actually works
Jason9366
6/7/2022
Overall great machine. Consumer reports were right on.
Originally posted on www.ge.com
Yes, I recommend this product
Appearance
Features
Performance
Quality
Value
Amazing features
Tleemaa
6/7/2022
Just installed and started using, still reading the manual with all the new features this set has. It is very large and very heavy, spin cycle is so smooth and quiet, amazing compared to the Samsung it replaced, way to go G.E.
Originally posted on www.ge.com
Yes, I recommend this product
Appearance
Features
Performance
Quality
Value
A very quiet and effective wash and rinse cycle
Ron Hager
6/7/2022
A big improvement over any previous washer in terms of available options. It is a very quiet machine in all cycles.
Originally posted on www.ge.com
Yes, I recommend this product
Appearance
Features
Performance
Quality
Value
Great
Auntjennjenn
6/6/2022
Always read instruction Manuel lol. Just bought it but do far so good.
Originally posted on www.ge.com
No, I do not recommend this product
Appearance
Features
Performance
Quality
Value
Wonderful machine
Ckjones2017
6/5/2022
Love the 50oz soap dispenser. Huge 5cf drum. And the Wi-Fi capability.
Originally posted on www.ge.com
Yes, I recommend this product
Appearance
Features
Performance
Quality
Value
Best washer we have owned!
Leland M
6/5/2022
Cycle options for any type of clothing or load. Everything comes out smelling fresh and the venting option keeps the washer from getting stale when not in use. We love it!
Originally posted on www.ge.com
Yes, I recommend this product
Appearance
Features
Performance
Quality
Value
Awesome
SMD0368
6/5/2022
So glad we decided to go with the complete set makes it easier to load and unload. We hooked it up to the WiFi but only so we know when it's done as it's in the basement and we can't hear the beeping.
Originally posted on www.ge.com
Yes, I recommend this product
Appearance
Features
Performance
Quality
Value
Greatest washer ever
Estero
6/5/2022
The washer is very efficient, easy to operate, and I am so excited on how clean my clothes are. I grew up, as a military brad, in Germany and we used the top brand made in Germany. I was hesitant buying the GE and to my surprise it is superb. I love the machine and wish I could purchase i5 in Germany also. (We still have a home there).
Originally posted on www.ge.com
Yes, I recommend this product
Appearance
Features
Performance
Quality
Value
Impressive Automation
Wally2112
6/5/2022
So far so good. Very quiet and minimal vibrations. Automated detergent dispenser is cool. Wifi connected app gives you live update of the status of your load.
Originally posted on www.ge.com
Yes, I recommend this product
Appearance
Features
Performance
Quality
Value
Love it love it love it
Nicole355
6/5/2022
I find myself doing more laundry then I typically do. I actually enjoy the process of washing. The clothes smell good and are clean so it does what it says it does.
Originally posted on www.ge.com
Yes, I recommend this product
Appearance
Features
Performance
Quality
Value
Great features!
Nikko B
6/3/2022
GE is known for its quality and reliability. My wife loves the color and it's a smart washing machine.
Originally posted on www.ge.com
Yes, I recommend this product
Appearance
Features
Performance
Quality
Value
This thing is a spaceship!
GoodSamaritan
6/3/2022
We moved from an apartment to our new home and chose this great washer after seeing other reviews and learning a lot about it through research. The machine is easy to use, pleasant due to the unusual blue/sapphire color, and a joy for my wife and I coming from an old beater in the place we were renting. It does it all, and it does so quietly for us. The installers did a wonderful job installing it, and I'm sure with proper care this thing is going to last forever!
Originally posted on www.ge.com
Yes, I recommend this product
Appearance
Features
Performance
Quality
Value
Great features!
Nikko B
6/3/2022
GE is known for good quality and reliability. My wife loves the color and it's Wi-Fi capability.
Originally posted on www.ge.com
Yes, I recommend this product
Appearance
Features
Performance
Quality
Value
Great Washer
JSmith88
6/3/2022
Amazing washer that had a unique venting system for anti-mildew.
Originally posted on www.ge.com
Yes, I recommend this product
Appearance
Features
Performance
Quality
Value
Detergent tank is awesome
Jewels14
6/2/2022
I am enjoying this new washer. It is nice that I only have to put detergent in the washer every couple of weeks. Has options to add less or more detergent depending on the size of my loads. I wanted a washer big enough to wash a king size comforter and this does the job perfectly.
Originally posted on www.ge.com
Yes, I recommend this product
Appearance
Features
Performance
Quality
Value
Technology Driven GE Washer
RaghuSR
6/2/2022
We got the new GE washer with WiFi connectedness. The washer can be monitored through the SmartHQ app and we get reminded on completion. Besides that the washer comes with Ultra fresh vent system, though it takes quite some time to get it done. There power clean with steam to cleanse the washer along with several utilities for washing. In all we have found an excellent replacement and we like it very much.
Originally posted on www.ge.com
Yes, I recommend this product
Appearance
Features
Performance
Quality
Value
Amazing washer!
Trace929
6/2/2022
Love this washer! The vent fresh feature was a big reason we got it, but aside from that it is quiet and fast. My clothes feel so clean!
Originally posted on www.ge.com
Yes, I recommend this product
Appearance
Features
Performance
Quality
Value
Karl's Appliance has been serving New Jersey and the New York Metro Area since 1941. Our nearly 70 years of experience has equipped us to help you find the appliances that fit your lifestyle. And now with the launch of KarlsAppliance.com the rest of the country can experience the Karl's difference!
There are so many appliance choices today - almost too many - but part of our job is to make purchasing your new appliances easy. We understand that you may not have purchased appliances for many years, even decades, and we have true appliance experts on staff to answer your questions and make this easy!
When you are buying from Karl's you are not buying from an unknown, cross your fingers and hope they will be there tomorrow, website. We operate seven retail appliance stores, a vibrant wholesale division, and three warehouses loaded with tens of millions of dollars of inventory. Our strong buying power and vendor relationships mean buying from Karl's is the right choice!
We sell everything from custom, designer, and professional appliances to the most basic and inexpensive - many available for next day local delivery and installation! If you can not find what you are looking for on our webite, please call us at 877-695-2757. We are an authorized dealer for every major brand of home appliances so chances are we have it!
Customer service - often a problem with your purchase becomes a nightmare - but not so at Karl's! We have invested in a dedicated customer service team who has the expertise to get any issue solved fast! How many of our competitors can say that?
